By Invitation: Whitley Esteban: Classicism is the New Punk Rock

The architect joins the ICAA's podcast for a conversation about classicism and creativity

By Invitation features discussions by architects, designers, garden professionals, urbanists, craftspeople, and luminaries in the classical design field about the relevance of the classical tradition in today's modern world.

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Whitley Esteban: Classicism is the New Punk Rock

In this episode of By Invitation, host Caroline Slaten sits down with architect and Studio Tre founder Whitley Esteban to explore why the most innovative design often begins by looking to the past. Together, they discuss the timeless appeal of craftsmanship, the enduring wisdom of classical architecture, and why embracing tradition can be one of the boldest and most forward-thinking acts in design today.

Whitley Esteban founded Studio Tre with partner Ernesto Gloria, where she leads architectural design direction across all projects. Whitley worked as Managing Director and Architectural Design Director at Roman and Williams, began her career at G. P. Schafer Architect, and sits on the national Board of Directors of the Institute of Classical Architecture & Art.

Join us as we make the case that classicism is the new punk rock and discover how the classical tradition remains a powerful source of creativity rather than constraint.

Episode Transcript

Whitley Esteban: 00:02

There's oftentimes a lot of good reason why traditions become traditions, because they, in and of themselves, are sustainable. If it's a tradition, if it's something that's prolonged for a long time, it's likely because it has that quality to it. And I think with a group of people like the ICAA has attracted and cultivated and grown, there's a sense of, I don't know, humility or awe, maybe is right, where look at all of this body of information, this shared, inherited knowledge that we could all learn from and could be applied in new and interesting ways.

Caroline Slaten: 00:37

Welcome to "By Invitation," a podcast of the Institute of Classical Architecture and Art, where we're dedicated to advancing the understanding, appreciation, and practice of classical design. I'm your host, Caroline Slaten, and in each episode, we'll explore the people, places, and ideas shaping the world of classical design. We are joined today by Whitley Esteban, architect and founder of Studio Tre. Whitley is behind some of the hippest spaces in New York City, and we sat down to explore how craftsmanship makes the world a better place, why classicism is the new punk rock, and if she wasn't an architect, how Whitley might have an alternative career in espionage. And by invitation, here is today's guest. Whitley Esteban. Whitley Esteban founded Studio Tre with partner Ernesto Gloria, where she leads architectural design direction across all projects. Whitley worked as the managing director and architectural design director at Roman and Williams, began her career at GP Schafer Architect, and is on the national board of directors of the Institute of Classical Architecture and Art.

Tell me a little bit about what was it like growing up as Whitley. Did you know that you always wanted to be an architect?

Whitley Esteban: 02:18

I should probably cut to the chase and say yes. I think from a pretty early age, it was probably pretty evident that this was definitely one possible inevitability. Kind of started with tree houses, and maybe we paint a palm tree on the mailbox and, ooh, what if we did paint a mural in this bedroom or playroom? I had an incredibly supportive childhood in that sense about, two, resourcefulness. And my mother studied interior design, and I had a grandfather who's a builder, so I was in and around job sites very early on. I remember kind of dragging my heels to stuff a pillow at an install. Like, "Ugh, again?" Like, "An antique store, again?"

Caroline Slaten: 02:56

Isn't it funny how as a kid, an antique store is like, "Oh, no, not another dusty store," but now it's just like paradise.

Whitley Esteban: 03:02

Yeah, now that's all you want to do, all I want to do.

Caroline Slaten: 03:04

Did your tree house have ionic columns?

Whitley Esteban: 03:07

No. So it bent more towards the vernacular than to the canonical version of things. We didn't get to volutes quite yet. But it was more primitive hut, loge, that side of things. But yeah, I really do believe that that early formative years envisioning, well, what if we did put steps up here and wow, that branch looks like a great place to be. That was a huge unlock in terms of building the confidence to see the world as it is and imagine and take the step or the risk to try it out a different way.

Caroline Slaten: 03:37

Now, if you had not become an architect, what would your job be right now?

Whitley Esteban: 03:40

I always thought this would be a great job as a cover for a spy. I don't know that I could really handle being a field operative, but I got to get into that chase or that plenum.

Caroline Slaten: 03:51

I could see this for you.

Whitley Esteban: 03:53

You get to travel the world and see things. That was one sort of childhood thing that may have seemed interesting. And then I think a lot of architects and designers envision themselves in other creative fields. So there was definitely a brief moment where I remember I was writing letters to the film school at the University of Southern California, and that was the thing in middle school. I needed to become a film director. That hasn't panned out.

Caroline Slaten: 04:15

So tell us, where have you been lately with your projects?

Whitley Esteban: 04:20

We've been across the Caribbean on something that is a renovation there of a home. We're upstate New York, which is nice to be a little closer to home. We've always got a couple things cooking in the city, which is great because the city's full of prodigious builders, so there's always something cooking here. And yeah, that's kind of where we've been most recently, just back and forth and working hand in hand with craftspeople and makers and the builders themselves to try to figure out how we make the vision happen.

Caroline Slaten: 04:50

And you're working on a variety of projects. So you do residential as well as hospitality. So what is the difference between how do you approach each of those different disciplines?

Whitley Esteban: 04:59

It's a funny thing because I don't know that we approach it so differently. There's some realities of, I guess maybe how the project itself is delivered on the technical side and on larger commercial jobs, we might be a little bit more structured in terms of the difference between the architectural scope and the interior scope and how our team, we don't do anything alone, how we then sort of subdivide the work. But from a purely sort of creative process point of view, we really approach the jobs quite similarly, and I think both interestingly inform each other. Both Ernesto and my experience is really rooted in residential design, but I think that approach from the residential sphere, that's sort of the foundation of everything that we do in terms of inhabiting the project and trying to the best of our ability to make an experience for whether or not it's a family whose home it is or it's guests at a hotel or a restaurant. We're still just basically trying to make a setting that's beautiful for their life and moments of celebration or moments of quietude or whatever. It all kind of, from a process point of view, happens the same way. We have to move a little faster sometimes on the commercial jobs working for developers, and we may have some budget constraints that are just different. But yeah, I think we approach the jobs pretty similarly, no matter what project type they are.

Caroline Slaten: 06:15

You mentioned Ernesto, that's your partner at Studio Tre. So where did you both meet?

Whitley Esteban: 06:20

Ernesto was my first friend in New York City. We happened to have both studied at the same school of architecture. We had a mutual friend in London who had introduced us to one another. He was moving from London to New York. I was fresh out of the Midwest. He was my first friend, and that was kind of how it all started. When the opportunity presented itself to work together, and should we hang a shingle and start this, I was a little like, "No. I'm a little intense to work with. I love you too much." We're like yin and yang, fire and water. I don't know, it scares me in that sense, out of a desire to sort of preserve this amazing relationship that we have. And anyhow, he convinced me because he usually does. I think because of the different and complementary nature that we have to one another is probably exactly why it makes perfect sense. It really started, truly from the creative process point of view. We lived together for a brief period. It really kind of started throwing parties. That was our first foray into designing things together, was party invites and parties themselves. So it came from a place of celebration and joy and what's the theme or what's the idea? What's the concept behind this evening? And here we are now, and it's kind of the same process. What's the concept behind the project or the space or what have you? It was very hands-on and very much informed by how we lived our lives as human beings as to how we then collaborated as designers together.

Caroline Slaten: 07:42

Well, a lot of your projects too have kind of a rock and roll vibe to them. I'm curious how you bring that energy to a project.

Whitley Esteban: 07:49

I think there's a desire, or maybe it's even an instinct that we have with the projects that we work on to put something there that maybe doesn't belong in a way that inserts a sense of the unexpected or this idea of combining things from opposite poles, and then that being the thing that creates voltage. Hopefully, that rock and roll maybe is that verve that you see in our projects. Like, "Where is that from? Why does that feel right? It's not exactly what I would expect to see here." We do try, I don't know that we're so conscientious about placing it, but we can't help but do it on whatever kind of project we're working on. We talk a lot about sort of trade routes, imports, exports. The basic sort of foundation of any project that we set out on is what's the place? What's the nature of it? What are the stones that are acquired from nearby? What are the trees that grow here? We try really hard to root the thing in its place and to feel like it belongs, but then also to wonder, well, what then actually washed up on shore from somewhere else? And what got brought here and then got integrated into the local tradition too, but never really totally belonged, but is still a beautiful thing to celebrate? I think that approach or that desire to throw something in that doesn't belong or you wouldn't expect to see is maybe a source of that rock and roll, maybe. Maybe makes a little exciting tension. Yeah, a little tension. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. A little, yeah. A little bit of that contrapposto, right? Right. It's not perfectly in balance on this level plane. There's something that's off-kilter, but in that, there's some beauty maybe. I think you really celebrate craftsmanship and artistry. So can you talk a little bit about that in your projects? Yeah. And we sure try to. I think in today's day and age, the one thing none of us can buy is time. Everything needs to move so quickly, and we want to move quickly. We want to get clients into their homes. We want to get restaurants open and making money for the owners, that sort of thing. But the thing that I think grabs us in our life, whether or not it's a handwritten card or it's a meal that might be quite simple but is very lovingly put together, that hand of the maker being there and detectable in that thing or that experience, that's the stuff that defines our life, and those are the moments that you remember. Those are the things that you write to somebody else about that they have to share. Craft and artisanship, that's that thing in the built environment. Across a number of job sites, we are always scanning, like, "Okay. We know that this particular subcontractor is the best of the best. Please, goodness gracious, tell us they've got young guys or young gals on the team." We have to keep these things alive. We sincerely feel that we're just getting started, and in order for us to be able to last, we're totally reliant upon all the crafts and all the trades doing that same thing and passing that torch and keeping the fire alive. That's really kind of the big opportunity that we feel we have with the work that we do to change the world and make it a better place, or make it the way we think it could or should be. And sometimes too, certain projects, really fast-moving ones, it may not be the case that the beautiful plaster fillagree ceiling that we wanted to accomplish can happen. But then, we do have the really good fortune, working on the interior side of things, to then dial that in with the textiles or even down to things like the glassware and the serveware and the dinnerware. We like to be involved in that, and we do like to champion a mom-and-pop or fourth-generation potter. We like to get that into the project too.

Caroline Slaten: 11:27

How has your life changed being an entrepreneur? It's got to be so different.

Whitley Esteban: 11:31

I think I was really fortunate to work with people, work for people really, and be raised by people who were daring enough to be entrepreneurs, and I had a lot of early exposure to what that means and how hard it is, and how much it can maybe take out of you, but also how much energy it can give you and how fulfilling it can be. So I kind of can't imagine doing anything else at this point, but I do need to make sure I pace it and that this is all a sustainable pace that it's going at. Because it becomes Everything. There's no separation between work and life and passion and career. It's all one big thing. For me, yeah, that makes kind of perfect sense. I feel so incredibly fortunate that I found this field, and I care so much about it, and it does offer so many opportunities to do what I love or learn about new things I didn't even know about now that I love. I don't think it's necessarily going to be the case that this career might make me rich or famous. I've no desire really, of the second anyways. But wow, what an incredible rich and enriching life this can promise. It takes a village. We cannot do it alone. We've been really fortunate. We have an incredible team thus far. A small team. We're maybe naive enough to think we can keep our team very small and still hopefully take on all the projects that excite us and energize us, et cetera. And being so small, it's so important too how we build that team. And Ernesto and I think even at first, as we were kind of taking those first steps to grow the studio and to build a team, we maybe did take a little bit for granted even our own shared understanding of architecture and the language of classical architecture. But it's not the only way to learn. That's not the only way to converse or to communicate in this world of building things. But really, in growing our studio and our firm, I think has really galvanized our own appreciation for the way that we were taught and the way in which the Institute too is sort of propagating this amazing body of information and knowledge and training the next generation. It's really inspiring.

Caroline Slaten: 13:48

Now that you are bringing on your own staff, and you've also taught, are you still teaching?

Whitley Esteban: 13:54

I'm not teaching right now. No, not at any any formal place of education.

Caroline Slaten: 13:58

But you are a mentor to young people. So how do you view that responsibility?

Whitley Esteban: 14:03

Oh, it's a big question. I constantly, consistently don't feel like I'm doing it well enough. But I do perceive it as a tremendous responsibility that anyone practicing needs to uphold. It absolutely is an investment. It pays dividends, and it's the right thing to do. It's the good and sustainable thing to do as a business owner to invest that time and that tutelage. And I'm hopeful at least that a sort of open studio environment and maybe it's kind of the manner in which we work as a really small studio gives some good opportunities to just see the full picture of how it's done sort of soup to nuts. We don't have all these different departments or divisions, and hopefully, we don't ever. If we're lucky, we'll see that that allows there to be a fair amount of transparency and visibility into how and why we do what we do.

Caroline Slaten: 15:07

Now, you've been involved with the ICAA for a long time, and now you're on our board of directors, which you have been for a while now. How did you get involved with the ICAA? Let's start there.

Whitley Esteban: 15:17

I started at Gil's office, and the ICAA, at that point, was the organization for anyone that I saw who was in the design field, who was making things that an architect was responsible for specifying. Anybody who seemed to be operating at the highest level was a member and a supporter of the Institute, and it was kind of a no-brainer. I guess I was ambitious. Looking back, I'm not so sure if it looked that way or not, but I always wanted to learn. I still always want to learn. And such incredible opportunities, especially as a young person in New York City, you're kind of bewildered. I was a little bit from the provinces, and it was like, wow, the access to historic houses that you could get into, gardens. There was just an amazing window into things I had maybe never had that opportunity to see into. So it started by just really attending lectures and events and that sort of thing. Some of my closest friends I've met through the ICAA. It's just been pretty much intrinsic part of sort of coming up in career and in life in New York and across the world with my career.

Caroline Slaten: 16:22

And now being on the board, you're leadership of the organization. You're an ambassador for the ICAA. So how do you view that role?

Whitley Esteban: 16:29

The vision of the board to include in its membership and its trustees some voices that maybe aren't quite as established. To have a really interesting mix of perspectives. It's been a tremendous opportunity. I've learned so much, and I'm hopeful that I can come to the table with a lens on the state of the practice and what it takes and how we grow this and how we build this tent bigger because we are a little rock and roll. We're a little bit the ones in the all black and the sneakers in the board meeting, and not the suit sometimes. Classicism needs a little rock and roll, right? Or a little jazz. A little risky. A little jazz. Yeah. I think so. And I think classicism is that. I think it totally is the new punk rock in a way. To me, it always has been. It's felt a little that way, and I think it's a tremendous opportunity to be a part of that board and to represent to the outside world that classicism includes that. Classical architecture does have that funk and does belong Downtown just as much as it belongs Uptown. And I don't know that anyone really is questioning that anymore in the year 2026. But I like being a part of that, and I very much enjoy the opportunity to showcase that range of what I think this foundation can provide in terms of the work and the output.

Caroline Slaten: 17:45

And I like to agree with you that classicism is the new funk. What does that word mean to you?

Whitley Esteban: 17:50

Classicism, in my view, is an approach or an embrace of the shared and accumulated wisdom of millennia of mankind building and seeking A canon, a best way to build and to make and to do and to give ourselves shelter and give the things we as a civilization do together and sometimes do separately. It's a big thing. It's an approach. It's a body of intelligence and information that I think is also okay, interestingly enough, to be interpreted very differently by different practitioners or believers in it. But, I think classicism is a notion, too, that there are ideals and there are objective truths about how we ought to build and what way is best suited for us living creatures and for the Earth that we call home. We often are working much more on the vernacular or the sort of folk version or expression of this language. It's not often the case that we're working in the most formal expression of Western classical architecture, but that understanding of architecture, the built environment, as a language, as a thing that has a beginning and that evolves and adapts and sounds differently in this place versus how it sounds in that place. That, to me, maybe that point of view or that perspective is classicism, and that's the thing that excites me about it, because it's mutable. It can be vernacular. It can express itself as folk or in native, indigenous ways, and it can be the import of something from another place that has a much more formal expression. It's all those things, and we can hold all those things, and we can appreciate all of them, and it doesn't have to be a choice of good or bad or this or that. I don't know. Classicism contains it all. And I maybe belong too, Caroline, to this funny camp that happens to believe that early capital M Modernists were high priests of a classical tradition. Maybe a radical thing to say for this setting, of all things, but I think classicism includes that moment as well. Classical architecture, much more a distinguished, articulate practitioner. Academics who have written on this, and I'm synthesizing in my sort of funny, loose folk way, in a way that might embarrass me later. But all of these traditions of building and particular manners in which we build, this all meant something and was an attempt at immortalizing these things that gave us shelter, buildings, built environment. And when I see a triglyph, I see a decorated beam ending, I see that as an expression of structure. And early modernists, they were distilling it and stripping it down to just that, but it still was that. It was very much the celebration of tectonics and how things got put together, and how do we do this in the most sophisticated, refined way. And there was an incredible amount, too, I think, of optimism in that. I think that's kind of classical, too. Having that kind of optimism.

Caroline Slaten: 20:58

And who were some of the people that really influenced you in design?

Whitley Esteban: 21:03

Well, certainly the people I worked for. I gravitated towards their work. Wanted so badly to work in those studios for very real, specific, detailed reasons, but also just, my gosh, this work is beautiful. The way the work's captured is poetic. I want to be in that space. I want to live in that house. I want to eat in that restaurant. And I absolutely can't deny that Gil Schafer, Robin Standefer, Stephen Alesch, Roman & Williams, their work, my gosh, the imprint of it is on my soul, and in a good way, and I'm incredibly proud of that and incredibly grateful for that. I've actually been doing this for kind of a long time now, Caroline. Remembering, I started this career, I had to get dropped off by my mother because I couldn't drive yet. My first architecture internship was for a woman named Lourdes Reynafarje. She's a Peruvian architect and was working in the panhandle of Florida, still is. And I think early on, it may have been the third day of my internship, and I got handed a copy of "Vers une Architecture" by Corb in French. I was too embarrassed to say, "I don't know how to read this." There was a lot of new urbanist developments in that area that I happened to be working in. That was this very much big tent mindset about what is good design, and it happened to include a lot of tradition, of things that looked like tradition, but also happened to include early modernists, too, which was, again, still part of this tradition of mankind trying to figure out what was the best way for us to build in. I think the people I had the opportunity to work most directly for definitely had the biggest imprint, and one thing that they've all shared, too, is this voracious appetite to learn and to know things deeply and to investigate and to understand, why is it that way? Why is that being made of that material in this climate? And why does it connect to the wall in that way? That kind of tradition of inquiry that I feel really fortunate to have been exposed to with the different practices that I worked at, that has left an incredible mark on me, and I hope I carry it forth with the same intensity and commitment to that.

Caroline Slaten: 22:59

I feel like that hallmark of always wanting to learn more is something I see so much at the ICA across our community. People gravitate towards our video lectures. People read every article. It's like we have this insatiable appetite to learn more. What do you think that is?

Whitley Esteban: 23:20

I think what underlines it is a sense of humility to tradition. There's a reason it's been done this way for hundreds of years or millennia, right? There's oftentimes a lot of good reason why traditions become traditions, because they, in and of themselves, are sustainable. If it's a tradition, if it's something that's prolonged for a long time, it's likely because it has that quality to it. And I think with a group of people like the ICA has attracted and cultivated and grown, there's a sense of, I don't know, humility or awe maybe is right, where look at all of this body of information, this shared, inherited knowledge that we could all learn from and could be applied in new and interesting ways.

Caroline Slaten: 24:01

It's really incredible to see that people are just always continuing to learn, not just students, but professionals, enthusiasts, and beyond.

Whitley Esteban: 24:09

The way that you all, we all, have put the content up and on the internet and made available and reached such an incredible global audience. I mean, it's incredible. And it's very energizing and encouraging and inspiring in a world where sometimes not everything feels that way.

Caroline Slaten: 24:26

And we're providing such important access to people. Because something that really resonates with me is pre-pandemic, we would have these great lectures and 100 people would come, or however many would be in the room here in Manhattan with us. And now with everything being so much more online, we can share it with people in every corner of the globe. They don't have to pay for any of this content. That's kind of unheard of in this day and age.

Whitley Esteban: 24:56

This could be the part where I bring in AI and automation. I think with this particular approach, or this belief or this perception or notion that classical architecture, classicism, this is the sort of shared inheritance of mankind. So it's our best attempt at codifying what the best, most responsible way to build is. Tradition itself is crowdsourced. It's open source for everyone. It doesn't necessarily belong to any one thing. I don't know that it even should. But I think there could be an amazing opportunity to apply some of these generative or machine learning tools to basically allow design to reach a much broader, audience is the right word, but a much broader client base than it is now. The percentage of the built environment that has the privilege of having design professionals involved is vast. We touch a very small portion of building projects across the globe, right? There's a lot that gets built that's much more a consequence of building codes and bank financing and just practical realities of how to put up shelter for people or put up office buildings for people. But if we are smart about how we share this information, this inherited, accumulated wisdom of what are the best ways to build, specific to particular climates or places, that could be rolled out by some of these tools that are under development. I think there's a tremendous opportunity to do that. I think with even automation and how we think about how buildings get built, there are a lot of exciting possibilities, and rather than this sort of paralysis that could come from fear, because fear definitely can and does do that to all of us. Our charge might be, if we really believe in this way of building, that it's best for all of us and for the Earth, we should get involved in it. Practitioners, we should figure out how to, because it's somewhat inevitable, I think, that the construction industry, that development, are going to use these tools. So then how do we make sure that this inherited wisdom is baked in, too?

Caroline Slaten: 27:07

But I think there is a tremendous opportunity. Well, instead of fearing it, to really harness it and use it to our advantage. I remember when the internet, everyone was like, "Oh, it's the Wild Wild West," and people were scared of that. It's like we're always a little bit scared of the unknown.

Whitley Esteban: 27:22

Absolutely.

Caroline Slaten: 27:23

But you have to make your own good in life. You have to make your good of this technology and this efficiency.

Whitley Esteban: 27:30

Yeah. I don't know how to train myself in it. I don't know what to do or how to do it, but I'd like to think I could figure something out or figure out how to participate in it. Because I do think that proponents of classical architecture, traditional architecture, are uniquely positioned to be thinking in systems ways, right? And these are all patterns. All of this stuff around us in this beautiful room with the cast hall, these are all patterns repeated in different ways, interpreted by a different hand. And if we can apply a sort of machine learning tool to propagate the better patterns rather than the less good patterns, that certainly seems like a good opportunity, if we could figure out how. I kind of want to see the behind-the-scenes version of Whitley. What are you like at home? You probably don't have a lot of time off, but when you do, what can we find you doing? I like to be in the garden. I like to be outside. I like to be as far away from computers and my phone as I possibly can be. I like to be in or on a body of water with people I love. That's kind of the very basic, simple thing that I try to aim for if I know I don't need to be somewhere for a project, or for a client, or for this or for that. And do you collect anything? Yes. I have in me this tendency to accumulate. That's sort of the gateway drug to becoming an actual proper collector of things. It's funny, we were talking about tree houses and how did this career and this profession start. It had very sort of humble origins in the same way of beautiful rocks from this particular beach off of Biarritz, or cataloging those rocks and shells and that sort of thing. I have in me that tendency to accumulate and to appreciate the sort of beauty of the small, throwaway, humble, natural thing. I don't even know if that's really called collecting, but that's more just accumulating. Really exciting and dynamic, energy-giving thing about working on projects across so many different locales and project types, and working on this kind of restaurant or that kind of restaurant. You get exposed to these different traditions of making things. The projects we work on have given me incredible opportunities to take the off-ramp, or to jump off at the exit and dig into something. So yeah, there's kind of a smattering of things that I've started to collect and think is a really fulfilling and hopefully lifelong thing that I can just cultivate and hopefully have room for or give away. That sort of thing.

Caroline Slaten: 30:07

And what's next for you and Studio Tre? Anything exciting coming up? Things we should be on the lookout for?

Whitley Esteban: 30:13

We do have some exciting projects in their stages now of, I won't call it wrapping up because they're very active for us as they lead up to being ready either for the family to enjoy or open to the public. Yeah, on the horizon this spring, Caroline, we've got projects that are finishing up and opening upstate New York, about two hours outside of the city. They grow the grains that then get distilled into whiskey right on the property. Really excited to be there and building in that tradition. We're out in Montauk, we have a project that will be open for the summer, very much in the sort of Montauk vernacular. We will start construction on a home in northern New Mexico pretty soon here as well. And for us too, this is a particularly, I think, energizing series of sounds and smells, an active job site. And yeah, we've got another restaurant project in SoHo. It's sort of like playing chess, trust your instincts, move fast, which is thrilling, but that'll also be opening up this spring. So yeah, we've got a lot going on.

Caroline Slaten: 31:13

Well, thank you so much for being with us here today, Whitley. Anything you want to add?

Whitley Esteban: 31:17

Thank you for having me. This is my first ever podcast. I felt very at home here at the ICAA, and I feel a tremendous amount of gratitude to the ICAA for everything that everyone does to support the mission and grow this body of information and push the tradition forward, keep the fire alive. So thank you if you're listening to this and for whatever you do for the classical tradition.

Caroline Slaten: 31:41

Thank you.

Thank you for tuning in to By Invitation, presented by the Institute of Classical Architecture and Art, an educational nonprofit dedicated to advancing the practice, understanding, and appreciation of classical and traditional architecture, art, and design. With 15 chapters across the United States, the ICAA offers programs for students, professionals, and enthusiasts around the world, including continuing education courses, public programs and lectures, travel programs, documentary films, and more. To learn more or to support the ICAA, please visit classicist.org.

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